Politics...Saddam Hussein

[osuche]

OK...

Am I the only one, or is anyone else a little turned off by the total glee with which American politicians and media are reporting on the deaths of Saddam's sons?

I personally think they sound like unsavory individuals...BUT...

1. I can't believe that the US actually put a price on these guys' heads. Talk about encouraging vigilantiasm. Next step is funding our own radical terrorist groups. WAIT!! We've already done that...

2. Who has the bad grace to celebrate the death of an individual? And waste simply HOURS of time on national TV etc. to do so.

Let's move on, guys....


What do y'all think? :confused:

[dadaist]

You mean you're still talking about iraq? Ho, hum, boring! ;)

Actually I'm paying little attention to the media right now. Just me personally. But I would think my above statements would be true about the stereotypical 'short attention span' Americans...

Now how many of US (Americans or not) fit into that short attention span category, well that's subject to debate....

[Ozling]

I havent watching any TV except for comedy central and Cartoon network ever since 9-11. i cant stand to see america gloating over a country that it clearly has complete dominance over. personally, ive never really been a huge america fan, but at 9-11 when it took the deaths of 5000 people to "bring a country together", i think that's kind of sad.

i didnt even know that saddam's sons were dead..i can understand the people of iraq celebrating their deaths, but anyone in america that has never endured the hardships of saddam's son's oppression should shut the hell up.

thank you for bringing this to my attention osuche, i almost watched TV today, but you saved me.

[FussyPucker]

Now how many of US (Americans or not) fit into that short attention span category, well that's subject to debate.... Depends who's talking :)

As for the reporting of the death of Sadman's sons it has been a little over the top. I think is for a couple of reasons though

1. The people of Iraq have been tortured by these people for many years and they're now being told they can live without the fear of it being done to them again by these sick men.

2. The "war" has never really been over since the US declared that it was and everyday there are more reports of soldiers being killed in bomb attacks and sniper shootings. The death of these two VERY high ranking members of the oposing forces is a huge step in the right direct for coming to a final end to the war.

3. There's so much attention being placed on the lack of evidence of WMDs that the governments need something big to deflect interest away from that and so far this is the biggest piece of news they've had to do that.

A few people in Iraq and in the UK that have been tortured at the hands of sadman's sons have said they wish that they'd been captured rather than killed so that they could face a proper court to pay for their crimes.........although some of the people wanted them to be tortured in the same way they had.

....WAR.....what is it good for ?.........

well it's good for some of the people some of the time....... but most of the time it's no good to anyone.

[dadaist]

Originally posted by FussyPucker
<snip>

....WAR.....what is it good for ?.........

<snip>


Selling computer games, comic books, some toys, newspapers...oh wait, you weren't serious? ;)

[rabbit]

I for one am glad we rubbed them out. Two really bad guys....


rabbit

[Loulabelle]

The whole Iraq affair has made me sick to the stomach, and this is just another example of how hideous the whole business has been.

Oh and Fussy, don't forget that in the UK they not only have to deflect attention from the WMD issue now, but also from the death of Dr Kelly resulting from it.

[jennaflower]

Sorry... to disagree with (almost) everyone who has posted this far... (to clarify, I am not sorry for my opinion, just sorry that others here who share similar ones to my own tend to be afraid to post them because of the possible backlash)

but not only am I completely supportive of our troops that have remained in Iraq but am pleased that Saddam's sons are dead.. YES.. I said PLEASED... the world is a better place without them.

We are talking the bottom of the barrell guys.. men who TORTURE, rule, terrorize and rape people on a daily basis. We are talking complete arrogant egotistical fanatics..


I hope they enjoyed their E Ride to HELL...

[MilkToast]

Originally posted by jennaflower
Sorry... to disagree with (almost) everyone who has posted this far... (to clarify, I am not sorry for my opinion, just sorry that others here who share similar ones to my own tend to be afraid to post them because of the possible backlash)

but not only am I completely supportive of our troops that have remained in Iraq but am pleased that Saddam's sons are dead.. YES.. I said PLEASED... the world is a better place without them.

We are talking the bottom of the barrell guys.. men who TORTURE, rule, terrorize and rape people on a daily basis. We are talking complete arrogant egotistical fanatics..


I hope they enjoyed their E Ride to HELL...
Count me in amongst those that think that this place is better off without those two. A price on their head? Good! There should be a price on the head of more people like that.

If you want to express an opinion I am more than willing to stand up and fight for you right to do that... when it comes to causing physical damage to another human being... well, in that case it is an eye for an eye... and those two got off easy with merely being killed... if I had it my way they would have been put through some of the "treatments" they so eagerly had employed on so many people.

Good riddance to them... and may they rot where they belong!

EDIT: I will agree, as well, that the way that the US media has dealt with this whole thing is also to be considered deplorable. Of course, my opinion of the US media has been in, for a long while now, the gutter... they choose to report that which will get ratings and ignore that which is truly important. Fear and gore get the attention of the public, but for the most part is truly not news... of course that can lead into the whole discussion about the general mind set of the American public that actually seems to enjoy watching these sensationalist reports about nothing... but that is best left for another time.

[Sharni]

I'm with you jennaflower......i'm not a american citizen...but support the US in their decision to go to war.....

And am extremely pleased that these two cruel bastards are no longer alive!! Now all they have to do is get Dad and i'll celebrate totally!!

[FussyPucker]

I'm totaly behind THIS war..............although I think the govs shoulda just said we're going in to get Saddam out rather than trying to make the whole thing about WMD that may or may not be found.. I can say I do believe that there WERE some and that there were some weapons programs being worked on..... The only problem then being where do you end ?........there's plenty of countries with human rights abuse going on every day........maybe if a few more countries got involved it would all get sorted sooner and with less death !

I was pointing out that since the war started there hasn't been much "good" news and this is the closest we've got to ending sadman's hold on the country. Sometimes you do have to look hard at why certain pieces of news are given such a high profile. Everyday there's more reports of soldiers being killed, there's still confusion of the weapons stuff, in the UK we have Dr kelly's death, in the US there's the whole private Lynch fiasco. I do think one main reason for the huge coverage is the fact that it will bring a great relief to the people of Iraq who know they nolonger need to fear these evil men.

I'm just hoping now that the loss of his sons will force Sadman to come out of hiding and give himself up.........time will tell

Help help two long ass posts I'm turning into Lixy!!!!........on second thoughts don't help.....if I do turn into Lixy I'll be in the bathroom with plety of soap if I'm not out in 2 weeks...........wait longer !!!

[horseman12]

I gotta go with Sharni and Jenna on this one.

What is the point of spending public funds on a trial???????
Fuck that! Kill the sick bastards is what I say!

[Irish]

I'm sure that it will suprise NOONE,that I'm glad that they are gone.My only regret is that they,didn't buy me a sniper rifle,& pay my expenses ,to do it myself!My father tought me,many things.that I remember.One of them was,that if you want to dance,you have to
pay the piper.Two WMDs are gone.Hopefully Saddam is next!
Irish
P.S.I don't know,if it's true,but one of the son's may have commited suicide!

[Scarecrow]

Irish I would have been your spotter

[FussyPucker]

Well they've released pictures of the bodies and that they're 100% sure that's it's them. If you really want tot see the pics they're on the CNN website..........and no doubt a few others too.

[Irish]

Scarecrow---I appreciate that.By way of explaination,a spotter
is someone,who looks thru a spotting scope or binoculars,&
lets you know where your hits are,usually when you are either
sighting in a scope or in a competition!People don't realise it,but
alot of time&ammunition,goes into sighting a weapon! Irish

[osuche]

It seems to me that we spend a lot of time saying that we have too much violence and murder in our society...and I am not certain that we send the right message to our kids about what is right and proper if we...

1. Put bounties on people's heads
2. Spend millions of dollars to assassinate a few people (these bombs don't come cheap)
3. Brag about our good work

(((thought I'd stir the pot again)))))

[skipthisone]

I never say we have too much violence in this country, I dont complain about something we are way too unwilling to do the right things to stop.

[MilkToast]

Originally posted by osuche
It seems to me that we spend a lot of time saying that we have too much violence and murder in our society...and I am not certain that we send the right message to our kids about what is right and proper if we...

1. Put bounties on people's heads
2. Spend millions of dollars to assassinate a few people (these bombs don't come cheap)
3. Brag about our good work

(((thought I'd stir the pot again)))))
I need to think about this a little more and then will likely put another reply in.

I agree that children need to be taught that violence is not the best solution to things, but I also believe that children need to be taught that they will be held responsible for their actions. I think that if message two is understood then it becomes clear that any form of unwarranted violence is not acceptable.

In the case of the two Hussein boys, well... I want the world and any little kid to undestand that if you grow up to treat people like they did you are going to have the sky falling in on you one day. They payed a fair price for what they did.

I'm not a violent person, I have never been in a real physical altercation in my life. But if given a rifle and the option of letting the Hussein brothers live, I would expend the two rounds very quickly and not feel at all bad about it.

[Cheyanne]

I have had mixed feelings about this from the beginning.

While I support our troops and the decision to go to war, I couldn't help but feel that perhaps the boundries have been overstepped. Yes, we are a nation that is very powerful and it is our "duty" to insure that the world's people are treated right, however, at what expense did this occur?

The lose of life, the misconception that the USA is a big bully, the troubles here at home... the financial state of the American people with unemployment, high cost of living, terror in our own schools & communities, the list goes on....

I am glad that Saddam's sons were killed.. and a big part of me wish that it hadn't been so quick - that they could have suffered as they made others suffer - and as a person that makes me sad. The only reason that I am glad about it is because perhaps there may be an end to this in sight? I am not so sure.. I believe that it will continue as the USA has shown the world that we will continue as we are.... call for help, we will find SOME reason to run to that country with aid....... because there will be other Saddam's.....

But my underlying feelings are this.... what about here at home? What about the people of the USA? Perhaps I am a little selfish with that remark, I don't know, but I can't help but feel that way....

[Irish]

As far as the economy goes,the way that I look at it is,that it doesn't matter if you make a million$,a year,if someone takes it
away from you.I have always figured,that if you let someone,walk
on you,once.They will think that they can do it again.Therefore,
you,don't let them do it once.This is the REAL world,not the
world that we would like! Irish
P.S.Motto: Do unto others as they would do unto you, only do
it to
them first!

[jennaflower]

Today, I looked at the pics without any feeling of pity or remorse... the amount of pain and suffering that they caused will never be erased.. but now we can rest assured that NO ONE on EARTH will ever be directly tortured by either one of them again...

alas tho... they are only 2 of many... I am a big believer that altho this earth will certainly always have "evil" it is our duty as human beings to rid the earth of as many of them as we can... on to the next one... hopefully Osama or Sadam....

[darogle]

In regards to the orgy of media coverage of the whole affair, I am against it. I do believe that showing the pictures to the Iraqi citizens was necessary. They had to have some degree of closure to the nightmare that has befallen them at the hands of these two thugs. They lived in such fear that many still cannot believe that they are gone.

But do I think that the news media in this country had to go to such lengths to dissect and exploit the coverage to up their ratings? No I do not. The restaint the media showed in not visibly drooling at showing the pictures over and over was feeble at best. Tabloid journalism at its worst.

That being said, I am a veteran. I know what our troops are going through over there. And I support them 1000%! There cause is just and their resolve is stronger than you can imagine. Saddam's regime HAD to be removed for the good of the Iraqi people, for the mid-east region and the world as a whole. This is a regime that has an undisputed history of attacking other countries, of supporting terrorism, of killing its own citizens, of mocking every peaceful attempt to make them comply with UN resolutions, and reveled in its own brutality.

I have been disheartened by peoples claims that no great show of evidence has been brought forth of Saddams WMDs. Was there ever any doubt of this? He used them on his own people! Every weapons inspector in Iraq knew he had them. They saw them. They watched as he repeatedly denied them access to the sites where they thought they were hidden. It doesn't take much to figure out what he was hiding. Then he expelled them from the country when they became too much of a bother to him.

President Clinton believed he had WMDs so strongly he ordered several missle strikes against Iraq. But now, it's unbelievable to Bush's opponants that Saddam had WMD because he said 16 words in a speech? Crimony!

Lest we not forget that this was not even the ONLY arguement for use of force. We must also remember that Saddam also brutalized his own people, threatened the security of the region, ignored UN mandate for 12 years, refused diplomatic measures, supported terrorism, stole food and medical supplies from his people that was meant for them under the food for oil program, used hospitals, mosques and schools as military storage and bunkers....and on and on.

Do not greive or be disheartened by the death of Uday and Qusay. They were murderers, rapists, torturers, kidnappers and sadists. They opened fire on our troops. They tried to kill us and we responded appropriately in response. I was appalled when I heard people on the news stating "well, we should have just captured them"! These are people that I guarantee you have never been shot at! That is not the way a firefight works. I know that each and every one of the troops there would have preferred a peacefull capture of them also. But Saddam's boys chose their path. Justice has been served.

[Kendall.]

We are talking the bottom of the barrell guys.. men who TORTURE, rule, terrorize and rape people on a daily basis. We are talking complete arrogant egotistical fanatics..


I hope they enjoyed their E Ride to HELL...


Its ironic. Heuissain is being tried for the deaths of about 130 people. Bush should have on his conscious about 32,000 deaths so far. But he does'nt. As "my" president, he has failed miserably to represent my ideals.

[osuche]

Wow, Kendall! Thanks for the walk down memory lane.

This war certainly has caused a lot of dissent in America, and globally.

[Oldfart]

Saddam is being tried for a drop in the bucket of misery and death the B'aath Party caused Iraq,

but it's a nice clear-cut drop which should see him locked away forever.

It's a bit like Capone going down on Tax fraud.

Bush's foray into Iraq was ill conceived, but it was an attempt to do the right thing and

ensure Middle Eastern stability.

[dicksbro]

A pretty good write-up on what crimes Saddam is believed to have been involved in is found ...

http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq1.html

The article is by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, "... a political analyst and human rights activist based in London. He is Director of the Institute for Policy Research & Development and a Researcher at the Islamic Human Rights Commission."

The article discusses a lot of the alleged offenses by Saddam, although, I doubt all. This was truly an evil man. Whether you were for the war or against it ... there really isn't much doubt that Saddam had really no socially redeeming value.

To be sure, there are good arguments to be made both ways about the war, it's conduct, and the aftermath. That discussion is good and doesn't have to be filled with hate.

I'm not really sure the war was really ill-conceived, although anticipation of the fanatical extremist reactions after the war wasn't as well planned for as it probably should have been. Of course post WWII in Germany also faced fanatical Nazis for a while although we seldom hear about that.

Anyway, I seem to recall that a major part of the US discussion on initiating the war, was that the United Nations had for years been paying lip service to sanctions and that if the UN was to mean anything, it needed to enforce the sanctions it advocated. The Security Council passed resolution after resolution that did nothing. They apparently didn't even care that most or a lot of the oil funds that were to provide food and aid to the people were being siphoned off ... to enrich Saddam and his cohorts and to pay corrupt UN officials and others who thought it was an easy way to bilk money.

I know that concern over WMD was part of the reason for the attack on Iraq, but it wasn't the only reason and I don't really think it was even THE major reason. And, I think we forget that the UN, France, Germany, Russia, the UK and many others also believed Iraq was working on obtaining these weapons. In fact, I don't recall anyone seriously doubting he at least had chemical and biological weapons. It wasn't just the US that thought this. Many still think Iraq was working on these, but sent the technology out of the country when the attack appeared intimate (Syria being mentioned most often as the recipient of these things).

I think it's fascinating to talk to troops returning from Iraq. We see the headlines of people dying, but, the men I've talked to said the vast majority of the country isn't that way (they say 75% plus) and that most of the people they've met are grateful for being liberated. Most recently, a guy I know returned for two weeks before returning to Iraq, and he noted he was surprised by US coverage of the war. It sounded to him like the coverage was about someplace else. There was nothing about the schools, hospitals, road and infrastructure improvements that had been made; the assumption of local governmental units of their responsibilities in governing their people, etc. No doubt he'll be glad to get home to his family and friends, but he was actually looking forward to the rest of his tour of duty there. He talked about visiting Ur on a weekend pass and seeing where Abraham is reported to have been born. Abraham is revered by Muslims, Christians and Jews. He hopes to get to Babylon before he finally comes home. He said it's a marvelous country filled with friendly and good people who are excited by their liberation. It's only one person's view, of course, but it sure wasn't the same as our media portrays. :(

[lakritze]

I tend to agree with you Osuche.What we all seem to forget is; while Saddam Hussein was still Iraq's leader,there was still some stability in that area. His government was secular and as we found out,had no WMD.If we had any real leadership in this country,we could have worked within that frame. Don't get me wrong,Hussein was a real nut case and much of what we know about him is true.Hs two sons were a couple of ass holes who should have been lined up nut to butt and shot using one bullit. I am of the belief that Saddam was captured several months before by a trible lord who's daughter had been brutelly raped by these two jerks,he was then drugged {opium?} and turned over to the Americans.After our attack and occupation of Iraq,just look at how we are viewed by the middle east and the rest of the world.

[jseal]

Saddam Hussein

…on regional stability:

According to Palestinian Arab Liberation Front figures, his government actively supported the Palestinian intifada, and paid $25,000 to families of suicide bombers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4294502.stm

The Iran: Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988) began on Sept. 22, 1980, with an Iraqi land and air invasion of western Iran. Approximately 1,000,000 casualties.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0825449.html

http://projects.sipri.se/cbw/research/factsheet-1984.html

…on a secular government:

His government opened hundreds of new mosques in the country and established a major new theological school called Saddam University. Mr. Hussein set out to create the largest mosque ever built – and had it named after him.

http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr108.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0520/p10s01-woiq.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/baghdad-mosques.htm

opinions of ordinary Iraqis following the removal of Saddam Hussein from power:

… 2004 “Most Iraqis are happier than they were before the US-led invasion, a nationwide opinion poll suggests.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3514504.stm

… 2005 “The latest survey of opinion in Iraq shows a degree of optimism at variance with the usual depiction of the country as one in total chaos.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4511688.stm

[wrestlemark]

Its ironic. Heuissain is being tried for the deaths of about 130 people. Bush should have on his conscious about 32,000 deaths so far. But he does'nt. As "my" president, he has failed miserably to represent my ideals.



thats what we have and thats why we are in america in the former iraq you would have been shot or tortured by their "president" the hussien trial is discusing ONE of the charges against him there are hundreds he was exterminating kurds like hitler did the jews, did you forget about that??????? MY president had the balls to do something after 9/11 maybe bill was YOUR president the cia called him and asked for an ok to shoot osama bin laden walking across a flat region they knew it was him!!!!!!!!! bill was playing golf wouldn't stop and give them an ok........thus 9/11 think about it !!!!!

[wrestlemark]

Saddam is being tried for a drop in the bucket of misery and death the B'aath Party caused Iraq,

but it's a nice clear-cut drop which should see him locked away forever.

It's a bit like Capone going down on Tax fraud.

Bush's foray into Iraq was ill conceived, but it was an attempt to do the right thing and

ensure Middle Eastern stability.



well put :D but to add if sadam is quilty of any charges he will be put to death acording to arab law and i say stick his head in his gold toilet let a few iraqis do something on his head shoot him and be done with that scum. god bless the usa and the men and women who fought and fight for it!!!!!!