Drivers Licenses?

[Irish]

What are everyones views on the new drivers licenses for illegal
aliens?There may be many pros&cons,but the first two things that
I thought of,immediately were,that they are often used for
identification when:
1:Getting airplane tickets!
2:Buying firearms or explosives!
With all of the new rules since 9-11,it does seem stupid,for another state,to allow them! Irish

[Lilith]

I want everyone eligble for a liscense because this way they have an option and possibly training/ educational experiences. Otherwise they will just be driving anyway with no sytem in place to check them out when there is a problem.

Basically it is a moot issue though because most illegal aliens would not subject themselves to any government agency intervention for fear of them notifying immigration.

Oh and as for the weapons purchases, if all states performed adequate background checks driver's liscenses would not be an issue in this case either.

[Irish]

Lilith---As you said-IF ALL states,performed background cks!
Take it from me-They don't!At the Gun Shop,that I frequent,
they know me now,but the first time that I went there,my
buddy,had just bought a 357Mag there.I had never even been in that town.He got a good price,so I went up there.I bought a new
357Mag.When I was filling out the paperwork,the owner told me,
to just awnser all of the questions "Yes"& sign it.Most business
men care more about a sale,then they do laws!I'm sure that I'm
not the only one,that happened to! Irish

[Lilith]

Originally posted by Irish
Lilith---As you said-IF ALL states,performed background cks!....
When I was filling out the paperwork,the owner told me,
to just awnser all of the questions "Yes"& sign it.Most business
men care more about a sale,then they do laws!I'm sure that I'm
not the only one,that happened to! Irish


You are right!!!! And the penalty for behavior that puts us all at risk should be so steep that it prevents them from being so careless, in other words $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

[Oldfart]

It sounds like just another of those ideas dreamed up by

public officials who have nothing better to do than think good

thoughts.

[lakritze]

It is sad that our economy has relied so much on "undocumented imagrants" in the past Are they now becomming the next scapegoat in our society? Not all of them are potential terrorists.Most are trying to escape the much worse conditions in their own countries.For the most part,I don't think they are a major problem.I find it quite odd that people who advocate back ground checks for everyone comming ino this country are much the same people who support the NRA's stand against background checks for gun purchasing.I don't think that some people will be happy until our borders look like the fortified walls built between Israel and Palestine.

[Cheyanne]

(This is a sore subject for me, and if I offend anyone, I apologize….I am venting, not pointing fingers.)

There is a part of me that takes pride in the American Dream…the history of the melting pot, and the unlimited opportunities that the United States provides to those who seek sanctuary within the walls of our great country. My ancestors were once a part of the mass exodus from other countries who established themselves here, raised families, and ultimately succeeded in reaching their vision. That was a time of incredible growth and learning for America…and it was welcomed with open arms.

Those who come into our country now, who sneak, or are smuggled (and those who smuggle), are wrong. Not wrong in wanting a better life, but wrong in how they are obtaining that better life. I reside in an area where there is a multitude of undocumented (illegal) aliens, primarily of Mexican heritage. The INS quite regularly “raids” the egg processing plants, and recently the owner of the largest business has been arrested for smuggling them from Mexico. His reasoning is that he is unable to hire American workers to do these “nasty” jobs or pay them what they “want” to be paid. (He pays these undocumented workers in cash - $3-$4 per hour – and the owner has 2 Hummers parked in his “mansion”)

I go to the grocery store, and I see these undocumented residents (I know this, it isn’t guessing – due to the nature of my past employment) pay for their groceries with food stamps (DHS has a special program developed for the illegal immigrants that allow them to take advantage of public assistance without recourse) …and carry them out to vehicles that cost $20,000 - $30,000. I see these people drive to a $90,000 home that holds perhaps 4-6 families. I read in the paper the names of these people who are driving without a license or state mandated insurance, and no “green” card or work permit. I see the children of these people attend school and the school system has had to develop a special budget and classes for those who do not speak English (while the other programs and teachers are cut). I hear the statements made by these children from my children when they tell me about their day at school… “You are a racist for making me do this assignment!” one said to a teacher who was making them do work that was required from the other students. I have seen the survey’s conducted by the county government of ethnic groups who pay local, state, and federal taxes vs. the ethnic population and by the numbers there are a lot of them who don’t pay.

I am all for immigration, if the immigrants live up to the standards and requirements that the United States expects of us all. If there is a program that requires the undocumented to be licensed, then they should comply….they take advantage of all the other things that are there… why not this?

[Cheyanne]

BTW... as far as the purchasing of guns is concerned.. if a person is illegal or a past criminal, there are many more options for them to obtain weapons than going thru legal channels. And if a person is illegal or a criminal, purchasing a gun through a licensed gun dealer is not going to be high on their list....however, I am sure that there are some who don’t follow the rules, and those are the ones that are sought out. The majority of the licensed gun dealers do follow the law.

The background check and the five day waiting period federally mandated by the passing of the Brady Bill actually effects those of us who are willing to go thru legal channels to own arms. Each state must abide by those federal laws. Each state, in addition to those federal laws has the ability to make additions as the lawmakers see fit.

Better background checks, more definitive laws, or perhaps more severe punishment is really not the answer to the problem. The problem is our inhumanity, and the answers evade us. Throughout history and still today, we kill each other with whatever means available. In some instances does owning a gun make that easier? Perhaps. But, if a person truly wanted to kill another and didn’t have a gun, would that person succeed? Probably. The reality of it isn’t legal gun ownership, but intent. Those who are in the US illegally will find a way, no matter what…. It isn’t just the laws that are to blame, it is the intent of the individual.

[dicksbro]

Cheyanne, I'd echo much of what you said, but you said it so well, it'd just be repitition.

If it's really a question of answering a labor need ... then make provisions for more liberal work visas. And as far as those who do "smuggle" illegals into our country, the punishments ought to be very severe.

[Aqua]

I agree with just about everything you have just stated Cheyanne, especially concerning illegal immigrants. It is not a huge issue where I live, but I do know it is in other parts of this country. I do take big exception with the following... (as Irish well knows :p )
Originally posted by Cheyanne
Throughout history and still today, we kill each other with whatever means available. In some instances does owning a gun make that easier? Perhaps.
Not perhaps. Definitely. The purpose of a firearm is to kill, when you get right down to it.

But, if a person truly wanted to kill another and didn’t have a gun, would that person succeed? Probably.
I'd say that is a maybe. There are a lot of factors that you could go into with that statement. I do know that if someone comes after me with a knife, I stand a lot better chance out-running that knife, then out-running a gun.

The reality of it isn’t legal gun ownership, but intent. Those who are in the US illegally will find a way, no matter what…. It isn’t just the laws that are to blame, it is the intent of the individual.
While this statement is very true, it doesn't cover the number of firearm deaths that occur accidentally each year. Also, what's wrong with waiting 5 days if you are purchasing a firearm? Is there a reason someone needs to be able to walk into a store and get one RIGHT NOW? I do agree, most people that could not obtain one legally will do it illegally, but why make it easier for them?

And I want to add... This topic sparks a fire in many Pixies, on both sides of the argument. I do not mean my statements as a direct attack on you Cheyanne. As you needed to vent, so did I.
(((Hugs)))

[Sharni]

Am glad Oz decided to ban guns....and those that do have then are licenced (well except for criminals of course *L*...but then if the are determined to get one..they will)

I totally support the removal of guns from Aussies who have no need for them!!

[Cheyanne]

Aqua (((HUGS))) back.

Not to worry, very seldom do I take any perspective that isn't totally intune with mine as an attack against me personally. That is why I felt totally comfortable to state my feelings on the topic here in these forums. The people here are very open and comfortable with their own opinions, and allow others to state theirs without rancor.

I don't have a problem with the 5 day waiting period, gun locks, background checks, etc..... and many gun owners don't either.

Owning a gun is a huge responsibility that many take very seriously. Accidential gun deaths are of course very tragic, and in my opinion, many of them, if not all could have been prevented if proper precautions were taken. There are many opinions on this issue, some are right and some are wrong....I am just thankful that I have the ability to express mine without worry of major blowup or attack... :D

[MilkToast]

Originally posted by Cheyanne
I don't have a problem with the 5 day waiting period, gun locks, background checks, etc..... and many gun owners don't either.
Ayup.... you can count me amongst those!