I couldn't agree with you more, when you say that the piece of paper makes not a scrap of difference. And I think a lot of people still get married because they want a wedding (women are more guilty of this than men) which is one of the many reasons we got married in such a low key way. Getting married was not important to us....being married was, and that was our choice.

And you're right when you say that so many people don't respect their marriage vows it seems a waste of time them making them. Being married does not make a relationship any more sacred and in many cases it does seem to be a license to stop making an effort to make the relationship work.

I couldn't imagine getting married without living with someone but I'm a left-wing hippie type. I am sorta envious of people who were SURE they were going to be with their soulmate for the rest of their lives. At the same time, I liked roaming Canada for a while & hooking up with cool peeps.

My sister was with one guy from when she was 13 until her mid-twenties. My best friend lost her virginity at 21 to her only boyfriend of five years.

For me, it was like tasting the same dessert every day when you could have an a la carte extravaganza. The people who know what they like are awesome pervs, too. I think it's just whatever happens, happens.

It's just different paths all our lives take.

^^^^^^Well said Steph! .....did I say that out loud??????????????

We lived in sin for 2 years before saying "I do's" .......... and that was almost 27 years ago.......... yes, she deserves sainthood!

sumpin' else...I must say, IMHO, that i lothe it being called "living in sin" never in MY heart when i was cohabitating did i feel like i was sinning against myself or anyone else. I think that it shouldn't be a common phrase on our vernacular anymore. Replace it with "living in pleasure"!

as i said IMHO, and i hope that i didn't trod on anyones toes....it's a thought that i have had for many many years now.....back to our topic at hand

Well lizz, I was brought up in a Catholic parochial school for 8 of my formative years..... and "guilty" is ingrained in us...... thus the phrase "living in sin" .... (but I like your phrase better!) (Just don't tell the nuns!)

Alasse, I know you are'nt having a go at me but I am a traditionalist I suppose I don’t like change, I prefer things the old way even though I am only 46, I don’t hold any thing against anyone who choose to live together before marriage, I just don’t believe in it.
now on the subject of the piece of paper not mean anything, well it does to me and i am sure it does to mrs moose and a lot of other people

Yes, but the piece of paper does not actually cause people to change their behavior like it was once intended to. Most people do not see the piece of paper as a binding contract because there are no sanctons, aside from the personal financial ones for breaking the contract anymore.

I'm married but I don't need a piece of paper to define what that means to Mr. Lil and myself.

I've done neither... but am a believer in taking a test-drive. If and when I find someone, I intend to live in first to make sure we are truly compatible.

Live together... Get to know each others habits - can be quite an eye-opener... Then discuss what irritates each other... Great way to see yourself... But I'd never get married to someone without first living with them... :D

I think the thing about the piece of paper was that it *did* mean something for me (and I am 29...the "younger generation" I guess). My parents had a terrible marriage and it really ruined parts of my childhood. I believe -- VERY strongly -- that I don't want my kids to experience what I experienced.

The paper -- and the marriage commitment -- meant that I was willing to have kids with Mr. Osuche. That I was confident enough in our compatibility, and his character as a person, to WANT to have kids with him. Until that moment, we were just having fun as two people can -- with no commitment for the future. A commitment to create a family. That's what the marriage meant to me.

And yes, I lived with him first -- several times over a 10 year span before we got married. It took me a long time to gain confidence that he was "the one" for me...not due to compatibility, but mostly because I wanted to see him in every situation possible and assess whether our relationship would stand the test of time.

I hope it will...we've grown a lot together over those 10 years. Been through moves, job changes, deaths in the family, richness and poorness, collapses in personal businesses, sickness, and (of course) many good times. And at the end of the 10 year "trial period" I loved him more...much more....than I ever could have imagined. Which gave me the cofidence to marry him.

LOL And I agree with you, Coaster!!!!!!! :)

My Irish Catholic pals & I use "living in sin" completely tongue in cheek. Sticking to the nuns! (Pardon the sexual pun, Bless me Father for I have punned)

Living with Denny has been an eye-opener for me. I love living with him, and I feel closer to him than I've ever felt to any man. That includes the man to whom I was married for 29 years.

It's interesting to see the reactions of some ofthe people around us. For example, before my daughter went to the national band competition, her chaperone called us to discuss some things. Denny answered the phone and she was flustered at trying to put a "label" on him in relation to me. Surprised me alot, but she's not been the only one. I won't even touch the "church thing".

I love Denny and plan to spend the rest of my life with him, married or not. I believe in marriage and do ultimately desire it, but I'm very happy to be living with the man I love, and I don't think I could possibly be more commited to him.